Help / advice / constant brickwall with writing

[TheProdigy]

Do / did you guys get this when learning about music writing?

I keep coming up with scratchpad / ideas / sketches but I think my music theory or plain lack of knowledge is holding me back.

eg. Here (not DnB so OK for general consumption :-) )

This is just an idea I was working on (I have lots like it ranging from retro synth to DnB). It's a crap tune so no need to comment etc. but it serves as an example of what I'm trying to explain.

It's basically 4 notes (e/f/a/b) with a slight variation on the lead synth. I can't seem to create suitable variations with other instruments!!

More Music Theory required?

[Dubsounds]

Mark, I don't know if my thoughts here are going to help you or make you throw in the towel entirely, I'm not sure but I can only tell you how I see it.

I believe that song writing is a gift. Some people just have tunes falling out of their heads and others don't. I really don't think it's something that can be taught either.

I spent many years studying piano when I was in my teens and given a piece of sheet music, I'm absolutely fine but ask me to improvise and I get stuck. I've got all the theory I need but I just don't have the gift for putting things together on my own. That's why I went into sound engineering and session programming. Keys are easy for me if I'm playing over someone else's session in a studio.

Over the years I've learned that I can improvise and come up with ideas if I work with other musicians and so in that respect I have written a few tunes now whilst in a band situation. What I used to do was get a drum groove and bass line going and hand that over to our singer who would scat with it and form a melody and some guide lyrics. Once I had that, we'd bring in Dave the guitarist and/or Helleanor with her sax/flute (both very melodic) and they would add their counter melodies.

As soon as that was tracked, ideas would just pour out of me and building the keyboard lines and finally adding all the production twists and turns was a swift, (and exciting) process.

One thing I have learned about musicians is they tend to come in two types. Melodic and Rhythmic. I'm very rhythmic! It's very rare that you get someone who is both and only Gavin comes to mind right now. Martin is very melodic but bloody useless rhythmically

So what I'm saying is that you might just have to take a good honest look at your abilities and see if they marry your aspirations. You could be asking too much of yourself and if you are, take my advice and start jamming with others when the ideas stop coming.

[Dubsounds]

BTW, stop being so self-depreciating about your D&B. I like the genre well enough and it didn't stop me playing it on Dubby FM either. I like only one kind of music... GOOD music. Genre's are for idiots ;D

[Tokyohunter]

Actually, sometimes trying to write a tune in a genre can be a problem.

Personally I wish I knew all the chord progressions and all the music theory.Never too late though.

try creating a track under a condition you normally wouldn't:
Very late at night when you are really tired
Very early in the morning at a weekend
Different mental states can have an effect...

[Gavin]

Working alone can seem very difficult because you dont have someone else to bounce ideas off. All you need to do is set yourself parameters.
For example i may decide to programme the drum part after the melody and bass line are down.
Try to write a song without drums at all.
Pick a random time signature.
Set a time limit of say an hour,then listen back and decide wether to carry on or delete it.

[vortex]

admin said:

BTW, stop being so self-depreciating about your D&B. I like the genre well enough and it didn't stop me playing it on Dubby FM either. I like only one kind of music... GOOD music. Genre's are for idiots ;D

Oi you lot stop taking a pop at proj. Modesty is a good british trait.

I for one am a very modest man, with much to be modest about (Another bon mot from Churchill I believe)

and if we hadn't labelled it D&B how would I know to avoid it

[vortex]

And another thing dubby. I think you're argument is overstated. Yes it undoubtedly accurately characterises what it takes to be a "songwriter" in the pro sense Burt Bacarach (sp), lennon, Mcartney, etc. but it paints too gloomy a picture for the amateur. Proj will be fine he's just come up against the reality of music creation rather than the image that is sold in the media and music mags.

The truth for most Music making = 5% inspiration 95% perspiration


I'm sure you're right about collaboration though .

PS Got a bastard of a hangover so tread lightly

[Dubsounds]

It's a shame you read it as overstated. I was being as honest as I could be and it wasn't intended to be depressing at all. It's just the facts as I see them (and have come to accept personally).

[vortex]

admin said:

It's a shame you read it as overstated. I was being as honest as I could be and it wasn't intended to be depressing at all. It's just the facts as I see them (and have come to accept personally).

Hello!!! ....... :PHANGOVER!!!!!!!!!!!

[secretagent]

I think creating things from scratch(from beginnig to a final,happy with version)is hard to achieve.
I'm guilty of putting things out that i'm not totally happy with just to get some feedback/advice.

But,and to try and answer marks question,studying a track you like and taking the time to find how it works and progresses and how it's structured and then base your own track on the same ideas is alot easier,if your willing to put in the graft of studying the original song.

Regarding your dunno song mark(forgive me if you've already done this but..)where you have the single notes e,f,a,b,convert those into chords;eg.Emajor,Fmajor,Aminor and Bminor,this gives you so many more notes to play with.

Then look for notes that appear in 2 consecutive chords(eg.A appears in Fmajor and Aminor)so you can sustain the A through the chord change.

As a very basic example i've added some chords to the first minute of your demo,moving the various notes around in the track.

HERE

[TheProdigy]

Thanks for replies guys ;D. That's exactly why I like it here. I bet if I posted the same question on SoS / Computer Music or Dogs on Acid I would get the standard answer from a pimply faced git less than half my age "Sample it!".

Shaun, I had already subscribed to your theory about myself already thinking I'm better at perc and basslines than arrangement etc. but part of me still thinks it's because I'm lacking in theory or just experience. Either that or I should just stick to perc but then I would get bored of the whole thing. I do like the tech / mix side of things though.

Martin, that is exactly what I'm trying to get to on my next step. You demonstrated it beautifully to me at any rate. Take my simple tunette and embellish it with notes that don't clash. Thanks for the chords suggestion. I'm going to have a play tomorrow if I get the chance.